Barockljusstakar

[UScollector]

Thank you again. It is interesting for an object so common such as candlesticks, that have been in millions of homes for hundreds of years, how little documentation from the period of their creation exists. Most are un-signed with exception of a number of maker in Birmingham England (do you have the book "Birmingham Brass Candlesticks" by Jean Burks?), there are a few late 18th c. pattern books or trade catalogs (these are actually quite rare), about all we have is directory listings of trades but without marked examples it is hard to match those up. Also very few have come to modern times with a good and solid provenance or history of where they have been. I wonder if anyone has done a search of the images in paintings of candlesticks say since 1600? I wonder how did Gentle and Schiffer come to the conclusions on where and when things were made in their wonderful books on brass?

I think it is fun to share knowledge and in the end we all learn a little more.

[hose]

You are most likely correct.
Regarding the biedermeier - I dont agree. Bad description more likely. I would say baroq. But the top confuses me?

Regarding this - with the tulip form I would say its around 1800 onwards
Regarding the other picture - this type is what originally was called Næstved stage. The baluster is down.
Then we also call the one with baluster up by same name Næstved. But the original one called is the one I cut from your picture.

[UScollector]

Thank you Hose,

As for the foot or base shown on the right of post #108, it seems to be very similar to some of the styles I have been told were late 18th/early 19th century Danish. On the right here are some that I believe date from that time. Both have hand cut screw threads and these were found in the US, the one on the far side came from a older woman cleaning out her grandparents summer house, she thought they had been in the house nearly a hundred years and her grandparents were Danish... it was $ 12 on ebay, I asked her this when I got it and she was very happy it went to someone who cared. The other came from the state of Iowa which has a lot of Scandinavian immigrants for about $ 50. The pair on the left I think are mid 18th century and possibly Danish..... they were found at a flea market in Copenhagen for 700 DKK this past summer.





On the candlestick shown in post # 107 I think it might be German, I saw a few last week on German ebay listed as Biedermeier?????

[hose]

Here are 3 what I have told are Danish Næstved stage, I guess from that town. I have been told they were made from the 1680's to the mid 18th century. All 3 have solid stems, 2 have been soldered I think the one on the right is later than the two on the left based on the shape of the base. These were all bought last year at flea markets in Copenhagen for between 300 and 750 DKK.

Congratulations yes you have butiful old stager.
But Næstved - yes it is the city and danish name of these. However the type is made in denmark and Northern Germany. The name Nætved stage is old. During my 30-35-40 years interest in these I have heard the name Næstved. And it gives a special status to a specific type. The story proberly originates to the 1940ties or 50ties and name continued. But could be German as well.
1680ties - well have been told that the foot of these late 16XX are 8 shaped and around 1720 the round foot. Type made until around 1800.
But its all very unsure - not realy science, but more tradition and evaluation.

I got them as in some cases the candlestick might not have wandered too far from it's birthplace.

This one is rather large at about 7" tall, it is seamed and has quite a high copper content. It appears to have a old solder joint fixing the stem to the base. Also someone stuck 3 sticky felt feet on it so they didn't scratch a table. This was bought in the US for $ 9. from someone that had no clue as to it's age.

It can be rigtht that they did not wander - however that we dont know. I have a beaker - made 1760 in Århus Denmark - bought on ebay from a US source - today back in Denmark. Dont know where it has been during the 250 years.

The left one - I have never seen that foot in Denmark. But on tradera.se or here at Precis.... or another swedish site Antikprat I have sen pictures of that foot.
But never seen it in Denmark - It does not meen that its not here - I have not been everywhere, but still.
Age however - good.

Now here are a few more with 8 sided bases, on the left is what I believe to be Spanish, maybe 1670-80. It is made in a very different method as the stem is hollow and soldered together from a number of thin half spheres. It is very light and the base is very thin brass. It was also one of my best bargains at $ 6. from a box lot at auction. The one in the middle is from post 109 above. The pair at the right I have no idea when or where they were made so any help is appreciated. On these the bases are a fairly thick casting. They were found in the UK for about £ 200 I think.

No question that they are old. I consulted a book and that said spanish too.
Sorry I cannot place the others - but they are good.

[UScollector]

Now here are a few more with 8 sided bases, on the left is what I believe to be Spanish, maybe 1670-80. It is made in a very different method as the stem is hollow and soldered together from a number of thin half spheres. It is very light and the base is very thin brass. It was also one of my best bargains at $ 6. from a box lot at auction. The one in the middle is from post 109 above. The pair at the right I have no idea when or where they were made so any help is appreciated. On these the bases are a fairly thick casting. They were found in the UK for about £ 200 I think.

[UScollector]

Here are a few more with similar stems, again all solid and screwed into the base. Are these from the same time period as the baroque shape to the stem may suggest? Some of my books seem to think the 8 sided base might have been a Dutch design? So once again where and from when are these from? Also not the two on the right have a higher copper content.... sort of a feel or gun metal as we would call it. The two on the left were both found in Copenhagen flea markets for 400 DKK each, the one on the far right came from the middle of the USA for $ 55........ Thanks again for any help you may be able to offer.

[UScollector]

Here are 3 what I have told are Danish Næstved stage, I guess from that town. I have been told they were made from the 1680's to the mid 18th century. All 3 have solid stems, 2 have been soldered I think the one on the right is later than the two on the left based on the shape of the base. These were all bought last year at flea markets in Copenhagen for between 300 and 750 DKK.

[UScollector]

Thank you for the information above, now I understand what you mean. As promised here are a few more and some questions. There is very little information on European candlesticks in English, it seems most of the books show mostly English examples and a few Dutch and French so your help is most appreciated. As I post these I will tell where I got them as in some cases the candlestick might not have wandered too far from it's birthplace.

This one is rather large at about 7" tall, it is seamed and has quite a high copper content. It appears to have a old solder joint fixing the stem to the base. Also someone stuck 3 sticky felt feet on it so they didn't scratch a table. This was bought in the US for $ 9. from someone that had no clue as to it's age.





Here you can see the color difference very well



Thank You

[hose]

I have about 6 in this same baroque form and some look older than others.

The one in question look late in the time frame I suggested.
Now I see that the one is manufactured in 2 half that has been set together. The long vertical stribe.
Often they are made and you see 2 holes in the baluster where the center of the form was held.

[UScollector]

Thank you Hose

I am not sure what you mean by a "loose candle ring"? Do you have a link to a photo of one?

I will have to take some better photos of some of my candlesticks and post them to see if identify them by date. I have about 6 in this same baroque form and some look older than others.

[hose]

Dont know about language. So I reply in English.
The candlestick at back of picture should have a loose candle ring - that one is missing. Origin could be England or Scandinavia.And time would be 1810/20 to 1840.

The one in question could be Danish but it could also be German or Holland. But as you see in this tread - there are many of these. And you are right this is a baroque form - age 1720 until 1800.
Unfortunately no register of mark excist. Noone have taken the job of collecting, only few marks are identified.

Hope that you have been able to read this tread - we have selected a great many.

[UScollector]

Hello, I am new to this forum, I live in the center of the USA and collect 17th and 18th brass candlesticks among other things. There is very little in English print to identify European candlesticks other than French. It is my hope that this forum will be able to be help in this area. I do not speak Swedish (However I have been to Sweden twice) so I am using computer translation software, since I do not know how accurate it is I will post in both English and Swedish if that is OK.

My first question is, what is the age and can the mark be identified? I think the candlestick is early to mid 18th century Danish.

Thank you

Hej, jag är ny på detta forum, jag bor mitt i USA och samla 17 och 18 mässingsljusstakar bland annat. Det finns mycket lite i engelska utskrift för att identifiera de europeiska ljusstakar än franska. Det är min förhoppning att detta forum ska kunna bidra på detta område. Jag talar inte svenska (Men jag har varit i Sverige två gånger) så jag använder programvara dator översättning, eftersom jag inte vet hur exakt det är jag kommer att publicera på både engelska och svenska om det är OK.

Min första fråga är, vad är ålder och kan märket identifieras? Jag tror att ljusstaken är början till mitten 18th century danska.

Tack

[mars]

vel venner - da virker det som om ringen er sånn passe sluttet.

mitt lokale bibliotek kunne kostnadsfritt motta boken die merkzeichen der nürnberger rotschmiede fra statsbiblioteket i aarhus - men min oppmerksomme (og tilfeldigvis danske) lokale bibliotekar fant ut at boken også fantes på universitetsbiblioteket i oslo. enda enklere. jeg mottok boken i dag. av alle de ca. 2000 smeder i nürnberg som er registrert gjennom 300 år - fra 1534-1837 - så finnes bare ca. 500 stempler. med stort hell så var mitt med i denne gjengen. hei: det vil si at snittet er minimale 1,6 smedstempel eksisterende per år - gjennom 3 århundrer.

videre: for å gjøre saken litt vrien så viser det seg at to smeder bruker det samme stempel som mitt:

johann friedrich braun - mester fra 1723.

johann britting - mester fra 1729/1730.

vennligst studer tekst i vedlagte foto. hvis noen er i stand og orker oversette tekstene til normalt skandinavisk språk så vil det være en heltedåd!






etter litt tenkning har jeg kommet frem til at min lysestake virker som en litt nedtonet og moderat soft barokk - på veg mot noe nytt og annet. min magefølelse forteller at lysestaken avbildet i forrige post #101 er samtidig med og kanskje laget av samme smed som min egen. dette gjør i såfall at den er feilaktig aldersbestemt med over minst 100 år. men det er selvsagt ikke lett å være for sikker - mange former gjentar seg over relativt store tidsrom - men det hadde vært fint om man med større enkelhet kunne kategorisere og lese de små tegn og nyanser i en lysestake med større sikkerhet - men eneste mulighet er vel å gjøre seg til ekspert på området og studere gjenstandene live - in situ.

ps: det viste seg at tegnet mellom I og B i stemplet er en hestesko - hufeisen.

som avslutning viser jeg to foto av lysestaker stemplet av johann friedrich braun/johann britting. det hadde jo vært en drøm om man kunne skille på disse to mestere så det fremtrer i klarere lys hvem av dem som har laget hva - men jeg er ikke i stand til å finne frem til flere arbeider enn nettopp disse to lysestakene (foruten min egen) - og disse to ser hvertfall helt identiske ut bortsett fra størrelsen.

ha en fin weekend.

[mars]

takk for det hose.

i mellomtiden mens jeg venter på svar fra statsbiblioteket i aarhus kan jeg vise et foto av en lysestake snarlik min egen. denne stake er da også et nürnbergerarbeid fra 1600-tallet. størrelsen er 24 cm - altså en relativt høy stake - og som man ser er formen nesten identisk til min - men med slankere og langstrakt kropp - med akkurat de samme elementer - som om noen har løftet og strukket den litt etter håret. eller at noen har slått min hardt i hodet med en hammer så den har sunket sammen og blitt dvergaktig og mer kompakt. foten på denne har en mer tung følelse - i og med at fotens skulder buler ut på sidene og synker lett sammen på veg mot midten. sikkert en praktisk årsak da mer stearin fra et dryppende lys kan samles opp - denne større stake er jo dimensjonert for tykkere lys enn min egen - mer søl!

apropos lys:
jeg har funnet og bestilt noen vokslys fra watts & co., london (http://www.wattsandco.com/). disse er svakt gule og har stor andel bivoks. interessant se hvordan de brenner. hvis noen kjenner til håndlagede lys av talg eller bivoks er jeg meget interessert i opplysninger om dette.

[hose]

Der var du dobbelt heldig tillykke med det. (at stempel var på forsiden & at du fandt den stage i første omgang).
Interessant tanke at et sted som Nürnberg var så langt længere fremme end lokal produktion hos en mester.

Industri og kunstmuseet låner ikke deres bøger ud, de har sikkert dårlige erfaringer. Men de kan ses på læsesalen.

En dejlig stage er det